Holy crap, NaNo starts in three days!

[jaunthie]

In honor (?) of the upcoming writefest, I'm grabbing an idea from sartorias. I'm devoutly intending to avoid using Mary Sues/Marty Stus myself, but I'm aware that sometimes they can be very successful characters. Today's question for my (alleged) readership: Name any successful Mary Sues or Marty Stus you can recall from books you have enjoyed. Note that I'm avoiding the whole "good book" quagmire; if you enjoyed it, that's good enough for this discussion.

To kick things off, here are a few off the top of my head:

• Harriet Vane, from the Lord Peter Wimsey novels. Hellloooo, Dorothy! And yet she completely works not only as her own character, but as a love interest for Peter.


• Janet Kagan's heroines. You can't tell me that Tochol Susumo, Annie "Mama Jason" Masmajean, and Dr. Evan Wilson aren't Mary Sues. But they rock, as do their respective novels/stories. (Hm, I'm sensing a trend here - maybe if you're kick-ass enough in real life, characters based on you will be interesting? Particularly when you're self-aware enough to know you're not perfect and to be honest about your imperfections?)


• Gandalf from The Lord of the Rings. Yeah, I think that's Tolkein wandering around in his own playground. And when you can create playgrounds like that, more power to you!

Any takers? Add your nominees in comments below! Agree/disagree? Feel free to comment!

Comments

[hiker-chick.livejournal.com]

Mary Sues or Marty Stus

Um, come again?

[monkeybard]

There's an article in wikipedia that might help you out: Mary Sue I used to have a link to a great essay about Mary Sue, but I've gone and lost it. :( There's also the fabulous Litmus Test. :)

[tangerinpenguin.livejournal.com]

The Girl Genius webcomic by locals Phil and Kaja Foglio also illustrated this rather well in an intermission storyline that started here:

http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20051212

(It also stands pretty well on its own, even if you aren't familiar with the rest of the GG storyline)

[monkeybard]

I vaguely remember Kaja. I think we were at university together and/or she was a friend of one of my roommates? Gods, it's been so long... The memory fades...

[jaunthie.livejournal.com]

Thanks MB and 'penguin - those explain the idea(s) behind Mary/Marty nicely. :-)

[monkeybard]

Menolly from Anne McCaffrey's Harper Hall trilogy. You cannot convince me that's not Anne playing in her own world.

Talia from Mercedes Lackey's Heralds of Valdemar trilogy, etc. So very much must be her, and if you're not convinced, read the schlock ending with her and Dirk. Yeah, that's a Mary Sue - undeniably a successful one, but moments like that make it obvious who Talia *really* is.

I'm totally with you on Harriet and Gandalf, too. Don't know the others so I can't comment on those.

[tangerinpenguin.livejournal.com]

I was thinking Menolly as well. She manages to rack up a staggering number of things that make her uniquely important, fast-tracks the influence ladder, and manages to always be in the midst of a lot of the key events from the parallel Dragonriders trilogy. The latter point, though, means she gets to play Forrest Gump to an awfully interesting world, and McCaffrey is good about making sure a whole lot of other characters get stage time rather than just being The Menolly Show.

(Ultimately, I think both the original Harper Hall and Dragonrider trilogies spoke to the court intrigue junkie/armchair sociologist in me as much as anything.)

[jaunthie.livejournal.com]

Yes, all hallmarks of a Mary Sue - although her all-but-total disappearing act in DragonDrums and later is kind of unique for a Mary. Still, maybe that's part of what makes her such a good character anyway.

[jaunthie.livejournal.com]

Totally agree with you on Menolly and Talia. I'd also say that Vanyel was a Marty Stu, even though Lackey is a female - and yeah, I know that's kind of odd, but there it is.

Yikes! You mean to tell me you've never read *any* Janet Kagan??? Oh, I've been a bad, bad friend...

[monkeybard]

'd also say that Vanyel was a Marty Stu...

Oh absolutely! Why else would she torture him so badly?

[jaunthie.livejournal.com]

Now there's an interesting thought. Are all whipping boy characters secretly Mary Sues or Marty Stus? Puts an interesting spin on Ned Malone, Robin, Cyclops, Vanyel...

[monkeybard]

I doubt it's as many as all that, but I think an argument can be made about the tortured MarySue/MartyStu. Not that I'm going to make it right now. ;)

[tylik.livejournal.com]

Hermione, anyone?

Mary Russell, in Laurie R King's series...

Gil in Hambly's books about the Dark?

I'd say Lazarus Long... except I hated Lazarus Long, mostly.

Mo in Dykes to Watch out For!

I have grave suspicions about Harry Dresden. But most in terms of his less appealing qualities, which has got to be the best use of Mary Stu-ism.

Oy. Mostly this makes me realize how drastically I thinned my library before I moved.

[jaunthie.livejournal.com]

Hermione, definitely - although Rowling avoids the classic Mary in that H doesn't wind up romantically involved with the protagonist.

Gah! Yeah, Mary Russell's a Mary Sue, all right. (I have problems with the Beekeeper's Apprentice series (or at least the two that I read) that go a lot deeper than Mary Sue.)

Gil? Hadn't thought about that one, and it's been years since I read those. Hm, maybe something to re-read in December!

Never managed Lazarus Long, but I'd believe you. (I've never been a Heinlein fan.) And who says Mary Sue has to be likeable?

Dunno Mo or Harry Dresden. Hm, more things to put on the reading list...